Victoria NeuroNotes

Into the Gray

Hierarchy Is A Destructive Force In Humans (Part 1)

268 Comments

Yahweh said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” Genesis 1:28

Result:

 

Hierarchy Is A Destructive Force In Humans – Psychological and Physiological Impact (Part 2)

coming_soon

 

 

 


Btw…my good friend, John Zande, at The Superstitious Naked Ape, published a new book this past week. I started reading it over the weekend and — just wow — my mind is already blown. What a clever, ingenious plot.

Get the book. All proceeds will be used to help reduce suffering in the world.

Visit John’s blog and/or click on his book cover. ➡


 

Advertisements

Author: NeuroNotes

Victoria predominately blogs about religion, and the brain's role in religious type experiences.

268 thoughts on “Hierarchy Is A Destructive Force In Humans (Part 1)

  1. Doesn’t take much to confuse me, Victoria. Am I missing part 1 or are you currently preparing?

    Like

  2. Love the video. Looking forward to part 2.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. There is a way in which that vid is quite sad. We have been on a destructive path since we showed up

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Or succinctly put: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. You do realize you have a misquote, Yahweh was not used in this verse. It was Elohim.

    Like

    • All quotes about God that are not from the one true Holy Book, The Qur’an, are blasphemy. From the Qur’an: 5:73: “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity).” But there is no god but Allâh. And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.”

      Liked by 1 person

    • Don’t you believe that Elohim is Yahweh? Regardless, most English translations just use God.

      Like

      • Yes I do, but Elohim indicates a very different meaning than YHWH.

        Like

        • Are you alluding to the trinity with Elohim being the plural name for God, rather than YHWH, being the singular for a particular person in the trinity?

          Liked by 1 person

        • LOL — you poly pagan, you. 😉

          Liked by 1 person

          • Yeah…….right…………

            Like

            • The truth will set you free, and we have cookies.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Cookies are good no matter what your worldview right?

                Liked by 1 person

                • Right. Sure as hell beats manna. 😀

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • Now that is funny.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • There’s hope for you yet, David, but I won’t hold my breath.

                      Like

                    • Well Victoria you and I probably agree on more than we disagree on. I would venture to say you would find me very normal aside from my view of religion and the creation of the cosmos.

                      Like

                    • Normal? But David, you are dead to yourself. Right? Or are you stilling working on dying?

                      Like

                    • Sacrificing our own wants and desires to the desires and wants of God is an ongoing process.

                      Like

                    • What loving father would expect that of his children? Mini-me’s.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • One that is holy.

                      Like

                    • “Holy” or “sacred” are little more than question stoppers. Nobody and no idea should attain such reverence as those words command, without demonstrating its worthiness – and perhaps not even then.

                      Yahweh has not demonstrated his (alleged) existence, and many of the actions and commands ascribed to him are malevolent (OT especially – genocide, slavery, etc.)

                      Liked by 2 people

                    • Genocide and slavery? I think you should probably read the OT again and think about what was actually happening.

                      Like

                    • David, the environmental conditions and behaviors attributed to Yahweh in the OT are the very conditions and behaviors that lead to all sorts of societal ills and dysfunctions.

                      I simply find it hard to comprehend that you justify such inhumane behavior from this god you call holy, and are willing to die for, yet fail to see that he has the behavior of the worst of human kings (dictatorial psychopaths) and your average alpha male baboon.

                      I realize all this has been brought to your attention before, and you blow it off, which is why I do think you have a form of SS. You came on this blog and supported the behavior of a child abuser.

                      Now tell me — what happened to you that would make you so desperate to bow down to a dictator?

                      I recommend reading “The God Virus” and learn what happens to the brain once you’ve been infected. Here’s a copy of the 1st chapter. http://www.thegodvirus.net/images/the%20godvirus_intro_1_2.pdf

                      There’s also a lecture on YouTube by the same title. I am not so much concerned that you believe in god as much as I’m concerned that you are caught up in a belief system that interferes with the well being and progress of our species. You represent someone who’s lost touch with his humanity.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • David,

                      “Genocide and slavery? I think you should probably read the OT again and think about what was actually happening.”

                      Back at ya.

                      genocide: noun. “the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.”

                      Deut 7:1-2:

                      “When the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are about to enter and occupy, and he clears away many nations before you—the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations mightier and more numerous than you— 2 and when the Lord your God gives them over to you and you defeat them, then you must utterly destroy them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy.”

                      The Israelites were the aggressors, and the plan was to totally destroy the other people. Regardless of their success or failure, this is not a moral example worth following, and it’s a good reason (among many) to ask whether Christian truth claims are indeed so, since it contradicts the alleged benevolence of Yahweh.

                      I don’t have time to look up slavery references for you, but you should easily find that the fact is that nowhere in the bible does it condemn owning other people. There are rules and guidelines for slavery in the OT, and the NT continues with “slaves, obey your masters…” Today, we know better. We respect certain universal human rights, like autonomy, and we don’t own other people. If Yahweh existed, and were morally superior to people, he sure missed a braindead obvious way to demonstrate it.

                      I’m not saying there are no good examples of morality in the Bible; there are some good points. I am saying that there are enough awful parts to throw it out as a trustworthy guidebook. If you think otherwise…how much cyanide will you allow to be mixed with your kool-aid until you refuse to drink it?

                      Liked by 3 people

                    • Dangit…Victoria, can you fix my blockquotes? First paragraph (quoting David), and the verses from Deut.

                      Like

                    • The genocide was during the purification of the promised land, it was not an ongoing endeavor. Wickedness was punished by the Lord. Is He loving? Yes, but even more so He is holy and punishes the wicked.

                      That being said, slavery that is spoken of in the Bible is not slavery as you think of it. It is bond servant, or someone paying a debt.

                      Like

                    • . . .the old, “But it wasn’t REALLY slavery in the Buybull” . .. pathetic, David. Really.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • No it’s called being honest about definitions and cultures.

                      Like

                    • Voluntary servantship is different than forced slavery.

                      Like

                    • “What loving father would expect that of his children? Mini-me’s. ”
                      As a step father myself, I can tell you that my position is that the exact opposite is true. Rather than my step daughter owing me anything (including but not limited to praise, groveling, forgiveness and all the other utterly sickly, disgusting, putrid, serfish, slavish elements of Christianity), I owe her everything. I owe it to her to see that she is equipped with the necessary tools to make her way though life before I get out of the way and let her get on with it. A ghastly, gruesome picture is the one of the father that never lets his children grow up and keeps them in constant fear of his wrath, all the while demanding attention and praise and thanks and compulsory love. Nothing could make me more horrified than that. Thank heavens there’s not a single solitary piece of evidence to suggest that any of this ridiculous nonsense is true, except in the heads of people who have been brainwashed to think that it’s true and/or want it to be true. Why anyone would want something so horrible to be true is beyond me but that’s a whole ‘nother discussion.

                      Liked by 4 people

                    • In a human flawed view that would make sense, but we aren’t talking about human we are talking about God. Can’t really compare the two.

                      Like

                    • David,

                      “Sacrificing our own wants and desires to the desires and wants of God is an ongoing process.”
                      Yes. It’s called being a slave or a serf. You seem to revel in being one. Most people on this blog do not.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • We owe everything to God. Without Him we are nothing.

                      Like

                    • David, you make a blanket statement which includes every person. YOU may be nothing without your invisible friend. Me? I am somebody, WITHOUT god(s). Somebody special. Just ask my grandkids. 🙂

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • You may believe that, but you wouldn’t even be here without God.

                      Like

                    • “The Jews and Christians say: ‘We are the children of God and His loved ones.’ Say: ‘Why then does He punish you for your sins?” (Surah 5:18)

                      Like

                    • God doesn’t punish his children for their sins so Surah 5:18 doesn’t know what it is talking about because Mohammed was a false prophet.

                      Like

                    • From the Qur’an, the only True Holy Book:
                      8:39: “And fight them until there is no more disbelief in Islam and the religion will all be for Allâh Alone…”

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Yeah, there is that “religion of peace”

                      Like

                    • The real Truth: “The God will say: ‘Jesus, son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind ‘Worship me and my mother as gods besides God?’ ‘Glory to You, ‘he will answer, ‘how could I ever say that to which I have no right?” (Surah 5:114-)

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • God and Jesus are the same.

                      Like

                    • BLASPHEMY! From The Qur’an, The One True Holy Book: 5:73: “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: “Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity).” But there is no god but Allâh. And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.

                      Like

                    • “We despise all reverences and all objects of reverence which are outside
                      the pale of our list of sacred things and yet, with strange inconsistency,
                      we are shocked when other people despise and defile the things which are
                      holy for us.”
                      ~ Mark Twain

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Don’t ya just love Twain.

                      Like

                    • No, David. I am here because of my mother and father. No magic involved – it’s all science.

                      Liked by 2 people

                    • In your finite view through human eyes without acknowledging what you know to be true in your soul.

                      Like

                    • This is the Truth in your soul, should you set aside pride and arrogance and but seek it; From The Qur’an, The One, True Holy Book: 9:34: “O you who believe! Verily, there are many of the Jewish rabbis and the Christian monks who devour the wealth of mankind in falsehood, and hinder men from the Way of Allâh. And those who hoard up gold and silver, and spend it not in the Way of Allâh — announce unto them a painful torment.”

                      Like

                    • Nope, no such thing as a soul, David.

                      Like

                    • Sure there is.

                      Like

                    • Read the Truth of the real Holy Book and the true Prophet of the Lord, blasphemer, and quake at the destiny which awaits you when you kneel before Allah upon the hour of your passing.
                      “…now that a Book confirming their own has come to them from God, they deny it…they reply: ‘We believe in what was revealed to us.’ But they deny what has since been revealed, although it is truth…Say: ‘Whoever is an enemy of Gabriel’ (who has by God’s grace revealed to you [Muhammad] the Koran as a guide…confirming previous scriptures)..will surely find that God is the enemy of the unbelievers.’…And now that an apostle has come to them from God confirming their own Scriptures, some of those to whom the Scriptures were given cast off the Book of God behind their backs…The unbelievers among the People of the Book, and the pagans, resent that any blessings should have been sent down to you from your Lord. ” (Surah 2:88-, 98-, 103-)

                      Like

                    • David, you’ve been so indoctrinated that, IMO, you exhibit symptoms of Stockholm syndrome. It is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors. Stockholm syndrome doesn’t necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes “strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other”.

                      People with SS can’t see it. Only after they have been deprogrammed. Like I told you on Ark’s blog, I’m so sorry for what happened to you when you were a child.

                      Liked by 2 people

                    • I’m very aware of what SS is and this is not that at all. I’m not captive, I’m free.

                      Like

                    • “The only true faith in God’s sight is Islam.” (Surah 3:19)

                      Liked by 2 people

                    • Always a devastating response to any THINKING Christian. Welcome to the Outsider’s Test.

                      Liked by 2 people

                    • Indeed. Islam makes the same ridiculous claims, in the same self-righteous way, as christianity about “knowing” the “real” god. Allah is the only God. it says so in the Koran.

                      Like

                    • Yeah…different “god” and a false one at that.

                      Like

                    • 2:120: “Never will the Jews nor the Christians be pleased with you till you follow their religion. Say: “Verily, Islâmic Guidance is the only Guidance. And if you were to follow their desires after what you have received of Knowledge, then you would have against Allâh neither any protector nor helper.”

                      Like

                    • David,
                      You prefer to live your life as a slave to a tyrannical dictator God and are glad of your chains. This is very unhealthy, poisonous towards life, even if it were true, which there is no reason to believe it is. It certainly isn’t a respectful one either. You can’t possibly expect to receive respect for openly declaring that you wish to live your life as a slave do you? What a sad, pathetic existence you must lead, spending your days sacrificing your own happiness and well being to please a capricious, cruel, malevolent master you’ve never met or heard from and can’t even know exists. How tragic. I feel very, very sorry for you.
                      Religion poisons EVERYTHING.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • Servant and slave are two different things. God isn’t cruel, he is loving and just.

                      Like

                    • David,
                      “In a human flawed view that would make sense, but we aren’t talking about human we are talking about God. Can’t really compare the two.”
                      I can’t make heads or tails of your answer. Please elaborate. I assert that my children don’t owe me anything (and in fact the reverse is true in my opinion) and to suggest otherwise would be tyrannical as well as gruesome and sickly). In what way does this not make sense if we are talking about God? Please explain how having a tyrannical dictator God demand that his children love him and worship him is any better/worse/different/acceptable than having a tyrannical dictator human do so. If anything, in my opinion, it makes it worse because of the absolutism of it.

                      Like

                    • God doesn’t owe us anything. Justice for us would be to be utterly destroyed, yet he extends a branch to us for salvation. That isn’t a tyrannical dictator. We have a choice.

                      Like

                    • David,

                      Starting a new thread based on you last comment – this one is getting way too long.

                      Like

  6. Heh…love the video.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Excellent clip, Victoria, says so much in such a short space of time

    Liked by 1 person

  8. very sad video from any perspective. I get the ‘power corrupts’ vibe and the concept that we as mankind see ourselves as rightful, even God ordained, rulers of the planet, fully empowered and authorized to do whatever to whomever else on the planet..
    eventually, you run out of everything and anything to kill and exploit, only to become the ‘exploitee’ yourself someday. (loved the t-shirt slogan becoming the ‘welcome mat’ by the way.
    I think the vid was originally pointed towards Vegetarianism or Vegan lifestyle, but it works to prove the point of your post. thx.
    “Go Vegan” or at least Vegetarian. -mike

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Hi Victoria, you realize that the ‘dominion of Canada’ was taken right out of scripture, eh?

    Sad video, and the images come fast so you’ve got to pay attention – there’s lots packed in there. Love the ‘eff’KC – clever! Interesting that it was filmed in back and white, as the issues raised are certainly not ‘black and white’. . .again, very succinct and thought provoking in its brutality.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Indeed, Carmen.

      ” you realize that the ‘dominion of Canada’ was taken right out of scripture, eh?”

      I had no idea. =/

      Like

      • Well, actually… the term ‘dominion’ was a replacement term for ‘kingdom’ because the British foreign minister at the time of Confederation thought the kingdom title was too pretentious and worried it might offend the Americans. After all, the term had been used for many decades already and was in various Acts of Parliament related to the British North American colonies including some of the 13 that had revolted. The substitute term – ‘dominion’ for ‘kingdom’ – fit nicely with the the scriptural reference of ‘sea to sea’, which aligned nicely with Canada’s official motto ( A Mari Usque Ad Mare ) so the name was officially adopted at the signing of Confederation not for religious reasons but political ones.

        The term generally relates to any lands owned by monarchies.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. Reblogged this on The Secular Jurist and commented:
    Apropos encapsulation of human history in 3 and a half minutes, and the E.T. judgement at the end is fitting.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. It seems to me that the video throws out the baby of progress with the bathwater of needless cruelty, pollution, etc.

    Like

    • Then you most likely missed the point of the post.

      Liked by 2 people

      • I think I get the point of your post – that thinking we’re given dominion by divine mandate leads to narcissism, environmental destruction, etc. That’s a good point. I just don’t think the video makes distinctions that it ought to, so I don’t think it stands well on its own.

        Clearly the protagonist’s attitude is atrocious, and leads to some awful results. But is the video creator also suggesting we shouldn’t eat meat, and build dwellings and cities for ourselves? It presents problems, (and some non- or exaggerated problems, IMO,) but what are the solutions?

        Like

        • “But is the video creator also suggesting we shouldn’t eat meat, and build dwellings and cities for ourselves?”

          I don’t think he’s suggesting we shouldn’t eat meat or build dwellings and cities. The message was obvious to me before I read his info. He states the video is about looking at mans relationship with the natural world.

          Like

        • “but what are the solutions?”

          I plan to highlight some of the causes (I provided a nibble in this post) and share some solutions in Part 2, which are based on comprehensive studies I’ve collected over the last 10 years. Thanks for your feedback. 🙂

          Liked by 1 person

  12. Ohhhh, that video rocks!

    And thanks for the plug, my friend 🙂 I’ve been having fun over on Insanty’s blog with the Xtians. They don’t like my thesis 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  13. “David, the environmental conditions and behaviors attributed to Yahweh in the OT are the very conditions and behaviors that lead to all sorts of societal ills and dysfunctions.

    I simply find it hard to comprehend that you justify such inhumane behavior from this god you call holy, and are willing to die for, yet fail to see that he has the behavior of the worst of human kings (dictatorial psychopaths) and your average alpha male baboon. “

    I’m starting a new thread because I didn’t see a reply button to this.

    Not only is this behavior justified by Christians, but they use said holiness as justification. In the scheme of things it is because of his holiness and our sinfulness that he does this. Not only that but he created us and can do what he pleases with his creation. One way I always accepted this was by telling myself that it didn’t matter if I liked the setup or not, it only mattered that it was reality. Oh, the irony…

    Liked by 2 people

    • “Not only is this behavior justified by Christians, but they use said holiness as justification.”

      Exactly.

      “Not only that but he created us and can do what he pleases with his creation.”

      Heard that excuse every time I dared to question the unethical mindset and behavior of said deity.

      ” One way I always accepted this was by telling myself that it didn’t matter if I liked the setup or not, it only mattered that it was reality.”

      You were certainly not alone in that “reasoning”. Talk about a clusterfuck, right? Loved James82’s “coming out” on Ark’s “Seeing the light — who would have thought” blog post this past week, thanking him and announcing that he was no longer a believer. I think that all of us who’ve been there, too, could totally relate.

      ——-

      James82: “Once you start to question logically and have the inaccuracies, the contradictions, and the flat out ridiculousness of it all pointed out to you, you can’t ignore it for very long. […] Christians say that when they get saved it’s like they have chains thrown off, but when I finally gave up on religion, I honestly had that feeling. Like a giant weight of shame, guilt, and religious oppression had been lifted off of my shoulders. It’s truly amazing.”

      ——-

      Couldn’t have said it better myself.

      Like

  14. Victoria, I’m sure you’ve talked about it before, but I don’t remember….is it common for someone to be so overwhelmed with a doctrine, theory or religion that he or she finds it extremely difficult to learn anything new once they’ve left that lifestyle? I’m asking because I have had a very hard time focusing and trying new things these last few years. Yes, I know that it’s hard to start over again, but I feel as though I have this massive mental block that prevents me from any kind of mental growth. It’s as though I am unable to learn anything new and I’m so heart broken over it. It doesn’t surprise me though for much of what I did the first four decades of my life was all for Jesus. I was never really good at anything outside of God stuff. However, I know that it may also be because I was fairly curious for many years. I often watched and listened to what people were REALLY saying to me, not what they had convinced others to believe about what they were saying. Maybe because I had been shunned, rebuked and abused so much I stopped reaching out and asking question. I don’t know.

    I hate admitting it because I know it sounds so bad to some people, but I think all of this is why I’m seeing myself as more of an anti-theist. Now that I reflect on the night that I knew I was no longer a Christian it was more than just realizing God was only an idea, it was significantly no longer believing by default. I didn’t want to be guilty by association when it came to God. I still don’t see the need to all out attack religionists. After all, many are doing the best they can with all that they’ve ever known. There’s this constant programming that goes on in our culture that sets such beliefs in cement through Churches, politics and medicine. I get a little giddy when I think of a world with no god, no religion. I just think that we need to help people question, be themselves and understand that they can leave and help show them how when they are absolutely ready on their own terms.

    BTW @Ashley, thanks for your step dad comment. I was always told that being a wife and mom should help me be a better Christian and better understand it. It didn’t, for the very reasons you mentioned about being an innocent child’s protector, confident and provider. It caused me to see where I had constantly been robbed and neglected by said God instead.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Charity, you know I am not into brain stuff as our lovely host. That said, don’t beat yourself up. There is hope. I think what you are doing is failing to appreciate the much that you have been able to learn since you left religion aside. You may only discover this through practice.
      What is difficult to change is how one reason through things.
      To change how you think, read more.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Charity, I think you and most people here will like this article
      http://www.peirce.org/writings/p26.html

      Liked by 1 person

    • “is it common for someone to be so overwhelmed with a doctrine, theory or religion that he or she finds it extremely difficult to learn anything new once they’ve left that lifestyle? I’m asking because I have had a very hard time focusing and trying new things these last few years.”

      Hi Charity,

      When your lifelong worldview has been turned on its head, and you realized you’d been duped big time, it takes time to trust again, at least that was the case for me. As the trite saying goes, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one, and I wasn’t interested in smelling the vapor of another asshole. That’s really a crude way to put it, but I was so disgusted and disappointed not only in others who worked so hard at convincing me this was truth, but at myself for being so gullible.

      So, yeah, I backed off the reading and studying for a while and worked on processing my emotions that surfaced during my deconversion period. Then, there was a period after the dust settled that I just wanted to enjoy the freedom I felt after the shackles fell off. There was a silent period where I had no questions, and that was really an awesome time. A relief. As I’ve mentioned before, it took me about 8 years to talk/write about my experience publicly, although, with exception of my daughter, I have no one to talk to (face-to-face) in my offline world about any of this. People are uncomfortable with it because it threatens their faith.

      From a neurological standpoint, I have no real advice. I’d just go with the flow and listen to your body. You’ve been through hell, and maybe this is a season for you to put the books on the back burner and enjoy the fruits of your labor. 🙂

      Like

      • “although, with exception of my daughter, I have no one to talk to (face-to-face) in my offline world about any of this. ”
        That makes me very sad Victoria. From what I have read from your blog and your messages on the comment sections, you sound like a very nice, thoughtful, intelligent person and it’s a shame that no one is willing to enjoy your company when talking about such matters. If you lived up in my neck of the woods (Northern Ontario, Canada) I’d invite you to come join my Humanist group so you could talk with other like minded individuals. I don’t think any of them were ever religious and I was never a believer so there was no de-conversion process for me, but I have found it to be a very positive, uplifting experience to have joined such a group and met other people who are like minded.
        So on the one hand, you could move here and rid yourself of the religious fundamentalists you’re constantly surrounded with, BUT, you’d freeze your butt-cheeks off in the winter. Ha ha ha. The last 2 winters here were so goddamn cold, it was unbearable.

        Liked by 3 people

        • *laughing*

          Ashley, I have lived in hell, so the idea of freezing my butt-cheeks off as opposed to frying my brain sounds like a better option. lol I should note that my grandmother and grandfather (now deceased) were from Quebec. My grandfather’s first cousin was The Rocket. 😉 While there are aspects of America I love, I resonate more with Canadians. Why wouldn’t I? I’m half Canadian and a humanist.

          Thank you so much for your kind words. I do miss community, and coming out as an unbeliever has been very costly for me, but I’ve never looked back, nor have any regrets. It’s been 10 years since my deconversion and even though I experience loneliness with bouts of depression from time to time because of the isolation, I wouldn’t trade this freedom I feel for nothing. As Neil Carter poignantly put it, when you live in the South, it’s like being in church every day. 😀 Moving to Canada has been something I have given serious thought to, and I just may do that if I can get my ducks in a row.

          Like

        • … at least, that’s what the invading bears have told us Southerners…

          Like

      • Hey V,

        I know that there have been times when I had to excuse myself from blog world. The first time I was trying to deal with terms like “heathen” and “blasphemer”. The second time was when I realized I seriously needed to work on my marriage and I shut down my blog altogether. And the third time was with my mind’s prison of “hell”. Now realizing that I’m an anti-theist I may have to bow out again soon for a while. That’s actually a much more difficult term for me to embrace than atheist. Still, I find it incredibly difficult in learning new things regardless.

        I admit, my break will begin with the third season of Orange tomorrow night. Woo hoo! Daddy’s taking the kids to the new Jurassic movie and I’m getting my Alex and Piper on!

        I did get into the first fifteen minutes of the video you recommended for me. I plan on finishing DeWitt’s conversation later tonight. I somewhat like him. I agree with what he says, but he still has Pentecostal preacher written all over him. That’s not a bad thing, it’s just something that he was for quarter of a century. It may go away in time, it may just be who he is period. From what I understand, he comes across that way in non religious services/meetings.

        I read an excellent piece by him a year or so ago. He wrote about the moment he realized he was no longer saved. He had to grieve the loved ones he had lost years prior because he didn’t really say good bye due to the anticipation of heaven. Realizing he’d never see them again, he said good bye to them for his own personal closure. Reading that made me so angry about my Nana. It’s like I grieved in ways I didn’t grieve when she died many years ago. I may never meet DeWitt, but that realization alone helped me to grow as a human being.

        I’m about to share something with you that your previous articles triggered in me. I’ve been reluctant to share them because of the depth of damage they represent of my former life. This was my Church. I began visiting from out of state two years after the first video. I actually moved there near the end of 2000, just in time for their enormous split.
        I want you and your readers to know in advance that if they couldn’t handle the Jesus Camp movie they many not want to click on either video.

        This video is pretty much self explanatory.

        Listen to the screams of the children in the next video.

        Like

        • Holy Crap, speaking of Jesus Camp, guess who posted the second video on her Youtube page?

          Liked by 1 person

        • Holy Crap. As a parent, I cannot understand how another parent could allow their kids to go through this and think it’s good for them.

          As a playground supervisor at local elementary school, I was always watching kids because they demonstrate as if broadcasting how they feel and I could immediately see where problem behaviours were about to start up. This meant I could intervene in a timely manner and resolve, redirect, and diffuse problems before they happened. My principle loved me because, out of all the supervisory staff, I seemed to be the only one who rarely if ever brought a child to the office (if I did, it was really important) and my areas rarely if ever produced problems the administration had to deal with. Knowing this about kids has also paid dividends as a parent and I could always tell if my behaviour or my spouse’s was triggering something… and make appropriate changes/explanations/different tactics, and so on. In other words, kids tell you by behaviour what they may not be able to communicate in words.

          So when I see a video like this, I marvel at how deeply parents have to believe to overcome their ‘natural’ inclination to respond to their distress… for that is what these sounds mean. And the pernicious influence of that belief is strong enough to harm children and think it is good. That should scare the shit out of any believing parent who professes to love, cherish, and care for his or her child but will allow them to be harmed by the exercise of that belief.

          Like

          • Agreed, it’s like seeing a child get hit by a car and doing nothing about it. Worse yet, it’s like getting in the car to intentionally target the child causing a “hit and run”.

            This is your brain on religion. Any questions?

            Wow, I guess I really am the anti-Christ now that I’ve embraced being an anti-theist.

            Like

        • This is so heartbreaking. 😦 The second video was a clear example of mass hysteria methodically orchestrated by con-men.

          “Mass hysteria is a condition affecting a group of persons, characterized by excitement or anxiety, irrational behavior or beliefs, or inexplicable symptoms of illness.”

          Neuroscientist Michale Persinger has studied this phenomena extensively. It’s very similar methodologies that dictators have used on crowds, such as Hitler. He states that when you bring people into a group, where they feel diminutive because of the size of the place (as seen in the videos), people will experience a special kind of psychological arousal. He further states that when music with specific bpm is presented (no doubt it was in these services), it produces a kind of wave of experience that elevates that special kind of arousal and also releases opiates which scientists know (experimentally) increases the hypnotizing effect, thus increasing suggestibility.

          Persinger:

          “Effective speakers, people who can manipulate crowds, for good or bad, have similar characteristics. […] You have these groups in the kind of ecstatic states, a kind of expectancy state, then you have the individual come out, the speaker who will coordinate all these experiences among the mass of people. This person must be a kind of orchestra leader to maintain his great orchestration of cognitive experiences. As the speaker begins to give the message, the people are full of emotion — full of imagery.”

          —-

          Sadly, children are already predisposed to suggestibility making their experience far more intense. Plus, these children are having these experiences during crucial brain development.

          Charity, thanks for sharing the videos.

          Like

          • Now you can see why I had to leave as I began to have children. There is an extreme disconnect between religion and children. It doesn’t comfort them, it scares them. It doesn’t teach them to love, it shows them how to judge. I was no longer like the above videos before my deconversion, I was Southern Baptist by that time. However, EVERY Judeo-Christian belief system is toxic. And that Southern Baptist church I was apart of is having VBS in the backyard behind mine all next week for a few hours every evening. So, yeah, they’ve got their extreme ways too.

            When I watched that first video I really thought that was a good and holy thing. Now I think of all the pressures a little girl must feel to save people from hell everyday of her life by praying them into the kingdom of God! As short as the video is, I can no longer watch it in one sitting. I have to process it through two. I use to think that this was a blessing and God used her because children are so sensitive to the Holy Spirit. Now I know how sick this is because children are incredibly sensitive and brains are not fully developed until our twenties. Oh the canker sores, stomach aches, head pain and deep sorrow that baby must have gone through to believe that a person’s after life was dependent upon her!

            I can barely watch the last one. I can’t handle a child screaming or crying, even when my youngest one is just having a “didn’t get my way” fit. I feel absolutely miserable when I hear my children cry, ESPECIALLY if I know I’ve done something or said something stupid that caused it. Because of my upbringing and four decades of programming I have to question everything I do to my children every day. This video is not healthy, this is children scared shitless. There is nothing worse to me than a sincerely frightened child. I can’t handle it. I want to make peace for them, I want to show them love. No child should feel responsible for anyone’s faith, healing or deliverance, EVER! Let the kids be kids.

            This is why religion is every body’s business or there will be complete and utter totalitarianism!

            Liked by 1 person

    • @Charity — I found a couple of typos (which weren’t recognized as grammar errors by WP), in my last comment to you. If you are reading my comment from email, my corrections won’t show up, so if you need any clarification, you might want to re-read my comment directly from my post. My fingers and brain don’t appear to be communicating very well with each other today. lol

      Like

    • Charity, I watched an excellent video today — Jerry DeWitt (ex-Pentecostal pastor) speaking to a group of humanists. You’re probably well acquainted with him. What you said early on in your comment ” I was never really good at anything outside of God stuff.” reminded me of something he said which was almost identical to what you said.

      You wrote: “I get a little giddy when I think of a world with no god, no religion. I just think that we need to help people question, be themselves and understand that they can leave and help show them how when they are absolutely ready on their own terms.

      Indeed. What DeWitt shares towards the end is exactly why I do what I do here. Hope you can find some free time to watch this. It’s well worth it, and the ending is hilarious.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Very good, Victoria. Thanks for sharing.

        Not only is there hope after faith, there’s charity too. 🙂

        I’m glad that hubby and I weren’t in the ministry when we deconverted. As hard as it was for us as Christians it’s got to be much more difficult for a minister. However, my husband works for a network of religious hospitals (aren’t they all) and his co-workers sometimes ride his ass about being an atheist. Don’t ever cross an atheist, especially a deconvert. He schools them on their God, religion and Bible all the time. They just get angrier and angrier because they’ll only preach a part of a scripture that they barely know. He then finishes it for them. Once they realize the full content totally changes the meaning of what they were initially preaching they split.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Charity, thanks for taking the time to watch. I figured you’d like it. Loved Jerry’s definition of faith. It was spot on.

          “Faith isn’t about knowing something. Faith is about acting like you know something.”

          You wrote: “Don’t ever cross an atheist, especially a deconvert.”

          Lol, so true. I’ve yet to meet a Christian who knew more than an atheist about their own religion and the bible.

          Liked by 1 person

          • I feel for the young woman at the end. I can’t begin to imagine what she’s going through at such a young age. I won’t blame her if she never tells her missionary/preacher daddy.

            Liked by 1 person

            • “Mind control is built in lies and manipulation of attachment needs.”

              ―Valerie Sinason, Alison Miller, Healing the Unimaginable: Treating Ritual Abuse and Mind Control

              Liked by 1 person

              • It’s just so sick, Victoria. I think that’s why I’m becoming more and more vocal about my non belief. Enough is enough! At the same time too, I don’t blame anyone who has to clean out their closet so that they can stay in it a little longer.

                I feel good, as painful as it was, that my whole family knows. Now I feel as though I have license to say what I really want to say. Right now there’s a major health concern going on with one of my parents and I haven’t really been apart of the conversation with my siblings about it. When I have I can tell that they don’t like my bluntness. The good news is they’ll probably think twice before they text or email me about updates. I know the tiny bit I did say was snarky, but it was the truth. People have got to realize that when you master shittery way into your senior years you may have at least one child who’s not going to show any empathy for your toxic self. And guess what baby cakes, that someone is me. They’re all Christians and they’re all so concerned about so many things about our parent’s health. I know that in the past I might have stepped up as the good, Christian oldest daughter, even as they treated me like garbage. Not anymore. I’ve got people who love me right here, no matter what, and I love them, no matter what. I will not drop them for another person who has shown me nothing but disdain all my life when all I did was try to show them and an imaginary being nothing but love and loyalty.

                It’s so good to be alive!

                Like

  15. David says: “God doesn’t owe us anything. Justice for us would be to be utterly destroyed, yet he extends a branch to us for salvation. That isn’t a tyrannical dictator. We have a choice.”
    And he also says: “Servant and slave are two different things. God isn’t cruel, he is loving and just.”
    I am having a hard time trying to understand exactly your viewpoint on the matter so if you could be so kind as to answer a few questions for me, I would very much appreciate it
    1) Did God not condemn us (all of humanity) with Adam and Eve’s original sin which is the whole reason that the need for salvation exists in the first place?
    2) I realize that it was a choice that Eve made, but is it not just as much God’s responsibility for putting them in that situation?
    3) If he is loving and just, why wouldn’t he just wave the mistake away and start over completely fresh? What’s the point of having to go through this life in order to achieve salvation and all the sacrifice that goes along with it if God could just wave it all away?
    4) I am not trying to pry, but does your human father subject you to ’round the clock surveillance and continuous judgment? Why would this be considered acceptable behavior from a loving, just God?
    5) Yes there is a difference between a servant and a slave. Have you not, several times, informed everyone here that if they don’t bow down to Jesus, they will spend an eternity in hell? The consequences of dissolving this relationship sound very dire to me – worse than the threat of death actually. Sounds an awful lot like a master-slave relationship to me. In what respect do you regard this as an employer-servant relationship instead of a master-slave relationship?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Great points, Ashley.

      Christians also need to realize that, according to their line of reasoning, God created hell. What does that say about said God?

      And when they do choose to serve him they spend their entire lives being processed through the Refiner’s fire. He removes the dross. He also puts them through the fire like clay.

      So, it’s either fire and judgement while alive or fire and judgement for eternity.

      Wow, so much love, huh?

      Liked by 1 person

      • There is no amount of mental gymnastics that is out of reach for the devout religious believer. They’ve already taken logic, reason and skepticism and thrown it in the trash, so pointing out how illogical anything they believe seems to be, is a complete waste of time. Although I must say that I saw and ever so tiny little ray of hope when commenting on ColorStorm’s blog (a comment that was slightly edited but still was allowed to be published) from a woman named Tricia when I pointed out the circular reasoning that CS employs to “prove” god exists (God created everything, we see everything therefore that proves that God did it). She admitted that she actually did see that it was circular reasoning so there are in fact some people that you can reach out to. I was actually very, very surprised when she wrote that. So there may be hope for some people, you just never know.

        Like

        • You are correct, Ashley. The apologist is prepared to defend the indefensible.

          There is no arguing with some people. I see you are attempting to argue with just such a person on his blog.

          I have a sneaking suspicion that some of the people who stridently defend the Bible have less actual confidence in it than their comments suggest. It can be almost that they are trying to persuade themselves. It is said that if an argument is weak then the strategy used is to shout loudly.

          Liked by 1 person

          • If you are talking about Color Storm – yes you are correct. There’s no getting through to that guy. He deletes and/or edits at least 1/4 of my comments now. I’ve called him a coward and a tyrant for doing it. Doesn’t seem to phase him….

            Like

            • Yes I am talking of our friend CS. I find his tone so patronising that it drives me to distraction.

              I have given up commenting on his blog, because it is clear he is not interested in a genuine discussion of issues.

              If I have any lingering doubts about my departure from Christianity, it is people like CS who confirm to me it was a correct decision to leave faith behind.

              Like

        • CS uses English to say nothing. His sentence structure is such that he always appears, to me, to be shouting without saying nothing at all

          Liked by 1 person

      • Charity. it is always proper to ask the goddite to tell you what point in time was hell created.

        Like

    • Actually translation of Bible terms is an issue in itself. Many of the translations let their theology dictate their translation decisions.

      Often a Greek is translated in the popular English versions of the Bible as ‘servant’, whereas a more accurate translation would actually be ‘slaves’.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Ashley, great questions. I would like to make a comment on #2 though I know David should be answering.
      Eve would not have made the decision to eat the fruit had god not planted the idea in her mind in the first place. If god had planted the tree and not said anything about it, the serpent wouldn’t have brought it up.
      And if for argument’s sake we accept Eve did wrong, why did god plant the tree in the garden where they could access if it didn’t want them to eat it? Why not keep the seeds in the pocket or something?
      It is impossible to place the responsibility on human beings without first blaming god.

      Like

  16. That was an fascinating read of comments.

    And, you are doing well at training me to watch vids.

    Cutts’ work is interesting. I tend to agree with Mike and Brandy, it does read like a promo for non-animal abuse, although I understand it is primarily an env vid. But, as any thinking veg/env person will tell you, the two are inextricably linked.

    I was left wondering how many of your readers don’t participate in all the activities shown on that vid …

    I guess the answer is, it’s allegorical. Just like the bible 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Cute and disgusting video. I think the more correct angle would be to set up shop and start selling everything as a commodity instead of it being free. Control everything so he could sell it. Enjoy the day, and thanks for stopping by.

    Like

Share your thoughts

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s