Victoria NeuroNotes

Into the Gray

God vs 1 Corinthians 13

105 Comments

I often hear Christians say that it’s not about religion, it’s about relationship. Yes, I can understand where they are coming from. That was what I believed, too. But who, exactly, are Christians wanting to become personally intimate with?

When I first accepted Christ into my heart (as an adult), I went into the “relationship” smitten and curious. Although I was raised Catholic, I had never read or studied the Bible, and I was quite excited to get to know God through his word. At this point, everything I had learned about God was through others.

Hand drops a heart as romantic idea of love into mind of person

 

Since the Bible states that all scripture is “God-breathed” (2 Timothy 3:16), and “God is love” (1 John 4:8), let’s interpret scripture in the light of scripture. Let’s compare the biblical god with the love chapter — 1 Corinthians 13: 4 – 8.

 

 


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Author: NeuroNotes

Victoria predominately blogs about religion, and the brain's role in religious type experiences.

105 thoughts on “God vs 1 Corinthians 13

  1. Yea, my massage therapist threw that whole religion/relationship comment at me like a good, White Southern Baptist should. She even told me I was angry. I told her she’s so cliche. I haven’t confronted her on what I realized she actually is just yet, but I will when the time comes. She believes in spirits, good and bad. She also believes in reincarnation. These are not Judeo/Christian beliefs. These are ideas found in spiritism. It’s funny to me because she is involved in false doctrine and divination. These are things that are clearly punishable by death according to the Bible.

    Here’s a heads up, Christians….don’t tell us it’s all about relationship with Jesus when you clearly aren’t even trying to have one with him yourself.

    I loved this video, V. I’m saving the link!

    Liked by 3 people

    • Bart Ehrman, as you know, is a professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. In a lecture, he said every semester he asks his students (predominately professing Christians) if they have ever read the Bible. He said very few ever raised their hands. He asks them “If God wrote a book, wouldn’t you want to know what’s in it?”

      I find it interesting that virtually no one in my family or extended family have ever read the bible in its entirety, much less studied it,. But they are all professing Christians claiming to have a personal relationship with him.

      Thanks for watching the video. ❤

      Liked by 2 people

      • My dad used to read the Bible all the way through three times a year. He read the set chapters in a year long program three times in one day, just so that he can say he’s read it several times in a year. You know from personal experience that the best way to read it is horizontally, not vertically. The way the narrator read 1st Corinthians 13 is the best way to truly understand the nature of YHWH. Once I started reading the Bible that way, and continued to study it that way, it was obvious to me as to just how two-faced the god actually idea is.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Two questions:

        If they have a personal relationship with God, why the need to read the Bible? Surely they can get instruction directly from the source.

        Unless God has told them directly that the Bible is an accurate historical document, and none of it is the work of humankind, why should the Bible have any more authority than any other (religious) document?

        Liked by 3 people

        • Hey Barry. Good to see you.

          Of course God told them directly that the Bible is an accurate historical document and none of it is the work of humankind. *giggles*

          Why should the Bible have any more authority than any other (religious) document? Because they said so ($$$), don’t cha know? Lol

          As far as your other question — getting instructions directly from the source — I think it’s called the brain. 😀

          Liked by 1 person

        • Barry by putting precedence of the Bible ahead of personal revelation Christians tacitly admit the personal revelation is not reliable.

          Liked by 1 person

          • I always feel uncomfortable when the word “Christians” is used without a modifier such as “some”, “most”, “many”, “all” etc. There’s no such thing as a unified Christian position on anything, and that includes the authority of the Bible.

            My experience might be different to yours but I find most Christians believe the Bible is the “word of God” in so far as the various authors were inspired by their belief/understanding of God, and not the dictates of a deity. As such its “authority” comes with many caveats, or even no special authority at all.

            I’d need to look at fundamentalists and evangelicals (a distinct minority in these parts) to find those who believe that the words of the Bible were dictated by God and therefore authoritative.

            Liked by 1 person

      • I think part of the problem regarding reading the Bible is that if one starts at the beginning it is only two books before you reach Leviticus. That is enough to stop anyone but the most enthusiastic in their tracks.

        Liked by 1 person

        • True that. As a “baby Christian”, I was told to read the Gospels. I didn’t really get into the OT until several years later.

          I couldn’t help but giggle when you shared with Tammi about all the Christian books you had owned and read. I had one of my favorite Bibles rebound twice. I didn’t want to lose my notes written on the pages, which were falling out. I also had 26 translations of the Bible, not to mention lexicons and Strong’s Concordance.

          I stayed away from Revelations for a long time. I dipped into Psalms and Proverbs just to get my feet wet. Like Charity mentioned, I also started reading the Gospels horizontally. That’s when I first started really questioning. I wasn’t a cherry picker. If I didn’t get something I would pray about it and pursue as best as I could. Only problem is — if you do that long enough you’ll go mad. The Bible is one hodgepodge of contradictions. 😀

          Anyway, when I felt “mature” enough to start studying the OT, it really didn’t take long for me to snap out of my dopamine and oxytocin stupor.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Victoria I have over the past year been progressively clearing out some of the Christian material I stored up. I have not even got up to the books. I have thrown out piles of missionary magazines, Bible Study notes, tracts, church bulletins, printed hymns, notes from church meetings, pass it on cards, Church orders of Service, articles I printed off the internet, Bible study notes – it goes on and on.

            It is quite astounding how much material I had. I had cupboards full of magazines, filing cabinets full to items, arch folders full, boxes full. It just goes on an on. As to our friend Tammi, well! recommending Lee Strobel to an atheist site is hardly likely to gain credibility. I assume most Christians have no idea with what derision Lee Strobel is regarded in atheist circles.

            I am presently working through Barry Webb’s commentary on Judges. I read about Jephthah’s daughter this morning. A couple of points to note is that jephthah only makes his vow to offer up a burnt sacrifice after the Spirit of God came upon him. Despite what some apologist suggest, he clearly is said to have sacrificed his daughter as it is said he fulfilled his vow which was to offer up to God as a burnt offering the first person who walked through his door. Although apologists try to give God a free pass on this one at the very least the narrative could have said and God did not agree with Jephthah’s action – no it just shows it is a total human creation – how anyone could read the Book of Judges and conclude it is a divine work is beyond me.

            Liked by 4 people

            • “- how anyone could read the Book of Judges and conclude it is a divine work is beyond me.”

              Boom.

              Liked by 2 people

            • Isn’t that a horrific story! Judges is full of freaky stuff. Right before my deconversion I found myself skipping over much of that book during devotions with hubs and my little boys. I do think sitting down with little ones as a mommy with the Bible gave me a very different perspective. I found justifying the Bible more and more difficult. However, doing this gave me the shove I needed out of Christianity. It became hard to look at my kids and accept the horrors in the Bible without any regret or doubt.

              Liked by 1 person

              • ” I found myself skipping over much of that book during devotions with hubs and my little boys.”

                There’s not much I’d share with children, period. The core message is love me or die. Who says that shit to children? Uh, the Bible.

                Liked by 2 people

                • I think that’s when reality hit me though. I couldn’t look into those kiddie eyes and still think that horrific text was okay. I already knew the Bible pretty well beforehand. There were actually stories I knew to skip before we started. I just realized that there was even more to skip than I had planned once I sat with my family to read it and discuss it. We used a basic Bible. One without colorful children’s illustrations and absolutely no flowery devotional language by Spurgeon or Chambers. That’s how every Christian needs to read it.

                  Liked by 1 person

              • Even the Samson story which seems to get a run in Children’s stories is pretty shocking. But not a patch on the Levite’s concubine.

                Like

            • Re Jephthah’s daughter:

              How could God disagree? According to Leviticus 27:28-29, “The Lord said to Moses” you must follow through with such a vow:

              “However, anything specially set apart for the Lord—whether a person, an animal, or family property—must never be sold or bought back. Anything devoted in this way has been set apart as holy, and it belongs to the Lord. No person specially set apart for destruction may be bought back. Such a person must be put to death.

              It’s right there in black and white: God plays for keeps.

              Liked by 1 person

  2. Loved the video. Hilarious and so sadly true it’s painful.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Indeed. If Christians want to keep their fluffy version of god, don’t read the Bible. Those who do read the bible and still think this is acceptable behavior from a so-called benevolent deity, then I have to wonder if they even know what a healthy relationship is.

      Liked by 4 people

      • It’s usually the abusers that find it acceptable.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Or those who’ve been abused and have only known this kind of relationship. Like in domestic abuse, many fear leaving because of the indoctrinated repercussions. Adam Lee has an excellent article about this:

          “This article will endeavor to show that, even if taken at face value, the Christian “personal relationship with God” is abusive and unhealthy in the extreme and deserves to be terminated. To do this, it will list the most typical red flags of an abusive human relationship and show how well they fit the theistic version. As will be shown, despite the fact that these warning signs were intended to apply to human relationships, it is striking how well they match God’s behavior as presented in Christian belief and in the Bible.”

          Is the Christian “Relationship with God” Healthy?

          Liked by 2 people

          • I can totally vouch for that personally.

            Btw, I stopped connecting with that online therapist a week ago. I clearly need to see one in person, especially for EMDR therapy. The one I had seemed nice, but it got to the point that I only messaged her once every two to three days. I kept getting “thanks for sharing that with me, I’ll talk to you later” type of responses. Oh well, I just have to do what I can. I’m pretty busy with the intense (PAINFUL) massages, TMJ issues and in dealing with all the issues related to my implant. Add all of that to the kids getting out for summer break late next week, my schedule is pretty full.

            I hope you are well, Victoria. You’re on mind an awful lot. I wish I could do a lot more for you. I feel so pathetic in my ability to help you.

            Liked by 1 person

            • No worries, my friend. That’s what doctors are for. A couple of weeks of rest after the surgery, and I’ll be well on my way to recovery. ❤

              I'm sorry things didn't work out for you with your online therapist.

              Like

            • (((hugs 4 Charity)))

              Liked by 2 people

              • Thanks so much. I’m still waiting to hear back from a doctor out in St Louis to completely remove my mesh. He has to approve my case before I can even visit his office. Everything is approved by my primary doctor and insurance, just waiting for Dr Veronikis to give me the green light. I will more than likely have to be cut from hip to hip. It can take hours to remove the entire implant and pick all the mesh out. Hopefully, he’ll see me and do the surgery soon. If not, I may need reconstruction surgery as well. The initial removal alone can take hours and recovery is normally half a year.

                Thanks your kindness, Zoe. Right now I’m just really concerned about our dear friend, Victoria.

                Liked by 2 people

                • I’m in tears. RE: mesh. I didn’t know you had that done. I have a history about all this. I ended up refusing the surgery and the surgeon went off on me. Long story. Maybe not for here. I’m so sorry Charity.

                  Liked by 1 person

                  • Just to clarify. Refused to have the surgery that involved putting the mesh in in the first place. I did not have the surgery at all. Worried that might not be clear.

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • I’m glad you didnt! You were a brave girl to stand up for yourself. No one has the right to bully anyone into a questionable medical procedure. I wish I had known more. I’m proud of you, Zoe!

                      Liked by 1 person

                  • Zoe, the only reason I saw that arrogant shit, William “Rusty” Shappley, III is because of my female gynecologist, Rye Estepp. On my very first visit with her I discussed my incontinence issues and she IMMEDIATELY brought up her buddy urologist specifically for the urethral sling implant. He did the procedure while she did my robotic hysterectomy last December. I can barely exercise. I can not have sex. I can hardly have any kind of vitamins (my TMJ specialist says I HAVE to) because of my leaky gas, stomach and diarrhea issues. I already had osteoarthritis in my hips and degenerative disc disease in my back. I found out this past December that I have arthritis in both of my jaws. I have had five horribly long and painful deep tissue massages. I suffer from serious trauma that destroyed my face and the right side of my body over quarter of a century ago. When I asked dip shit Shappley if the procedure he reassured me that it was a totally different different procedure from the vaginal mesh. He had me in preop a month ago. I finally talked him into removing it. It was there that he told me he could only remove the part around the urethra. I walked out before that mother fucker could lay his hand on me to hurt me more. I remember him briefly checking up on me after the implant in December. You know what he told me as he left my hospital room? “God bless you, Charity!” Dumb fuck. And you know what’s worse, Zoe? I just found out from a good friend that his dad did her mother’s vaginal mesh years ago. Hers actually protrudes out of her body! Fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, and lupos, the list of autoimmune diseases goes on and on regarding victims of mesh! #sickmotherfuckersperformingsurgicalrapeeveryday

                    Liked by 1 person

                    • I found out about arthritis in jaws in February that is.

                      Liked by 1 person

                    • We have a lot in common Charity. It’s because of my autoimmune issues that I ended up refusing to have the surgery. And because of reading stories about the Johnson & Johnson mesh on blogs and forums. Here in Canada Health Canada issues warnings about it and my urologist who was going to “mesh” me in conjunction with a hyster could have cared less. And was he pissed when I made him hear me out. I cannot do justice to the telling of the story here. I hear you and geesh, this may bring me back to my blogging. Can you imagine this happening to the doctors? They’d change their tune in a heart beat if they were mangled like this. I consider it malpractice.

                      Liked by 1 person

      • I actually never read much of the babble until after I realized I didn’t believe in it. Catholics aren’t big babble pushers. Easier to control the drones if you’re taught only to listen to what the king bee priests tell you about it or ELSE! What a violent, ugly, disgusting book it is, too.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Exactly. That’s the way I was raised, although I was fearful of hell and that god could get so pissed off that he’d drown almost every living being. So, TBH, I really thought that if I went the distance and studied the bible, I’d have a much better understanding — and perhaps even come to the conclusion that god was justified. But when looking at this through the lens of a relationship, one has to question why they would justify this behavior in a god, but would not want those characteristics in a partner or parents.

          Liked by 3 people

      • Victoria many Christians with a fluffy view of God do read the Bible but do so selectively focussing on verses that give them personal comfort, especially the Psalms.

        What used to get to me was how there might be a prophetic book like Jeremiah or Ezekiel and one would notice that Christians invariably focussed on the few comforting verse and ignored most of the rest. Jeremiah 29:13-14 is a prime example.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Agreed. They are usually coached to read specific scriptures in the Bible, but when I was a Christian, I could count on one hand how many people I knew who had actually read the whole Bible — and these were people I went to church with for years. I ran into a lot of bumps in the road while studying the Bible and when I couldn’t find the answers myself, I’d ask my pastor or elders. Funny thing is that they couldn’t answer my questions either and would tell me that “God’s thoughts are higher than our thoughts and his ways are not our ways”, blah, blah, blah — you know the scripture. Pat answers.

          Like

    • I loved the “smearing feces on people’s faces” line – priceless! Isn’t that what godless, soulless apes and monkeys do?

      Liked by 2 people

  3. These guys are good.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Yes, yes, I’ve heard that sentiment from some religious people – as if theirs is a superior philosophy and implying that they are somehow closer to being a ‘real’ Christian. What nonsense. A little one-sided, isn’t it?

    Liked by 4 people

  5. Btw, V, I love the blindfold on the little guy on your header. So true!

    Liked by 1 person

  6. That was the scripture reading at our wedding. 😦

    Liked by 2 people

  7. United Church of Canada for our wedding Carmen, but I think you already knew that. 🙂

    I remember being given choices for the reading. I was only 21 at the time. Didn’t really like any of them but went with that one. I can’t remember the other choices.

    Our song selection included The Wedding Song Victoria. Really popular in those days. Our soloist pulled out at the last minute so our organist did the solo on the organ.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Love the video, Victoria. It reminded my of this excerpt from the trial of Mr. Yahweh in my novel:
    ———————————-

    Scenario – In an ethereal courtroom, Mr. Yahweh (the Christian god) is on a two person witness stand. In the other seat is a rather reluctant professor of psychology (a tepid believer). Instead of having the psychologist directly analyze Yahweh, the prosecutor, a professor of evolutionary biology and philosophy, uses a different approach:

    [Speaking to the psychologist]

    “Imagine there is a country over which a reclusive king rules. His subjects have never seen him, as he lives in isolated splendor. This king has a secret spy service so large and pervasive that it is everywhere throughout the kingdom, and their technology has advanced to such a degree that they spy on everyone at all times, even in their bedrooms and baths.

    “This king decrees that all his subjects must display their unqualified love for him and he reacts with rage and ruthless vengeance when anyone dares display a lack of love and fealty, or even to question his authority over every aspect of their lives—to include thought, speech, and procreation.

    “He demands constant praise and has his secret service report any deviation from his demands, or breach of his laws, or hinting of favor to some other king, or even expressing a desire to be ruled by no king at all.

    “This king has his undercover agents constantly test his subjects by enticing them to denounce their king, or breach his laws, or even to express their doubt of his love for them, even though he gives them no cause to believe such love exists.

    “When any of this tyrant’s subjects succumb to the goading of the spies, he explodes in rage and the unfortunate subject is taken to the dungeon and severely tortured for the rest of his life. The king’s vengeance is all-inclusive and without mercy. He lets his subjects know this, so they might fear him, and thus . . . love him.

    “From this information, and with no means of direct contact with the king, what sort of mental condition would you say his actions exhibit?”

    Daughtrey paused, apparently to consider the question. “If we’re speaking only of a human, and lacking the opportunity for consultation with the king, I’d have to say that your king exhibits the characteristics of a sociopathic narcissist. He seems to care little or nothing for others, is devoid of empathy, but demands praise and love when he has none to give.

    “I would say, too, that he fears his subjects every bit as much as they fear him, demonstrated by the fact of his spying and his reclusiveness. Indeed, he is exceedingly insecure, trusts no one, and lives a life of misery.

    ———————————

    Would this be your analysis as well, Victoria?

    Daughtrey eventually comes around and sees Yahweh from Carl Jung’s view in his essay, Answer to Job.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Having to explain every concept in the bible should be warning enough. Like food….if you have to study the label you probably shouldn’t eat it. But in religion the experts have learned to explain away, in great detail, how great gods perspective is, and what he really meant. Probably shouldn’t ingest that either. Love ya sis. Nice work

    Liked by 1 person

  10. I am late to this big party, but as a good apologist, he has read the Bible out of context. We are new testament people. We are free from the law and all those horrible things in the old testament. God is love. It says so in the bible

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Great post. Love is gentle, love is kind. There is no way to reconcile the nt God of love with the ot God of genocide, murder and tribal conquest

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Reblogged this on The Recovering Know It All and commented:
    Amazing piece of writing and thinking. Loved the Video, thought i’d share it around a bit. Enjoy -KIA

    Liked by 1 person

  13. The video made god sound like Donald Trump. Seems they both have the same views. 🙂 Hugs

    Like

  14. If it’s a “relationship”, it’s unlike any other relationship people experience, so much so that they ought to use another word for it.

    Liked by 1 person

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